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Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

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    Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

    Here's an essay from the founder and president of the Future of Freedom Foundation regarding the origin of our right to keep and bear arms.--gun sane.

    https://www.fff.org/2018/02/27/gun-r...ond-amendment/
    Last edited by gun sane; 09-10-2018, 11:25 AM. Reason: See below
    Well Armed Christian Soldier!

    #2
    Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

    Your arguments are the same arguments sovereign citizens use. The Bill of Rights exists to protect the people of the United States. To argue that it is not necessary, which is essentially what you are saying, is dangerous.
    Certified Armed Infidel

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

      Before storm clouds gather too quickly, I believe it's important to know if the OP shares the essay author's opinion, or he's merely presenting it for discussion. Therefore, I've edited his post to include an introductory statement and a link. Pro or con discussion is good, but it's important that we understand who is saying what. It's Bersa Chat's policy to prohibit a cut and paste from the internet and not for the sole reason of avoiding copyright infringement. It may also lead to misunderstandings of intent.
      Last edited by gun sane; 09-10-2018, 11:36 AM.
      Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

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        #4
        Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

        While it can be dangerous to think that the BoR is not necessary, I am not sure it is wrong. Especially given the fact that with SCOTUS rulings and State laws have essentially trampled all over those rights. To say this gun or that gun should be banned is EXACTLY what the 2A should have prevented given that it was understood by the founders that possessing any weapon would/could be used against a standing army of the US, meaning that the citizen should have EQUAL firepower of that standing army to replace a gov't that has become tyrannical.

        If any of you is on twitter, it is interesting to follow @CrimeADay. Their goal is to tweet out every Federal law on the books. They have been at it for 4 years and estimated to tweet out the last law sometime in the year 2450-ish.

        Just know that EVERY US citizen will likely commit a federal crime every single day of their life. Like:
        it is a Federal crime to let your cat walk on a boardwalk at Yellowstone.
        it is a Federal crime to shoot a black-tailed prairie dog in Nebraska's Rainwater Basin Wetland Management District.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

          I have to agree that the Bill of Rights is specifically not necessary. Or shouldn't be necessary, rather. I am glad we have it, but as the constitution is written, only the powers in it are granted to the government and no others. In practice a couple of centuries later we see where that stands, and I honestly believe the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights saw this coming and made specific mention of what the government could not do.
          And no, IT IS NOT the argument sovereign citizens use, they drag out the articles of confederation, which have not been the law of the land since 1789.

          Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
          "The kindest, most sensitive guy on the entire internet."

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

            Yes the sovereigns drag out the articles of confederation but their basic claim is that they have to obey NO LAW because they have G-d given rights. And this is the same argument that many use about the right to carry. The claim is that a right to self defense is a right to carry just as a right to travel is a right to drive on state and federal highways. The later is easier to shut down since the highways were created and maintained with tax dollars and, therefore, must have tax incomes, such as from licenses, to keep maintaining them. I agree that the right to open carry is granted by the 2nd amendment even though I think doing so opens one up to significant problems but I think concealed carry should require training and a license/permit. However, I think restricting semiautomatic weapons, and even automatic weapons, magazine sizes, front grips, etc goes against the 2nd Amendment. If a cop can have then so should we be able to. But that doesn't mean the 2nd Amendment should be gotten rid of. It needs to be strengthened by the Supreme Court.
            Certified Armed Infidel

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              #7
              Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

              I suspiciously suspect that nobody actually read the thing.

              It's beautifully written explanation of why we have our rights.
              The bill of rights doesn't give us our rights.
              It simply protects those rights.
              Well Armed Christian Soldier!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

                Originally posted by cavelamb View Post
                I suspiciously suspect that nobody actually read the thing.
                I suspect your suspicions are only partially suspect.
                I think it was read with an "already know what this says" eye. A lot gets missed that way. I agree with what the author wrote and I hope I understood their intention.



                Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
                "The kindest, most sensitive guy on the entire internet."

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

                  Originally posted by cavelamb View Post
                  ...
                  The bill of rights doesn't give us our rights.
                  It simply protects those rights.
                  Point well taken.
                  Certified Armed Infidel

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Gun Rights Don't Come from the Second Amendment

                    What cavelamb says in the quote below is the indisputable truth. All human beings have inalienable rights simply because they are created by God in His own image and therefore have value that other creatures do not have. The Bill of Rights only states and seeks to safeguard what belongs to all people created by God. And it is on this basis that the founders asserted these rights. Apart from being created by God, no one can claim that any human being has any more worth than any other creature. The point is rights do not come from Government. If they did, then Government should be able to take rights away.

                    Nevertheless, many governments have oppressed and suppressed these rights down through history. This is what the founders sought to prevent when they penned the Bill of Rights.



                    Originally posted by cavelamb View Post
                    I suspiciously suspect that nobody actually read the thing.

                    It's beautifully written explanation of why we have our rights.
                    The bill of rights doesn't give us our rights.
                    It simply protects those rights.

                    Comment

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