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    30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

    While not actually reloading, this is Swaging which is just building the parts to start building the ammunition. I thought I would start with making bullets from expended brass for the 30 carbine, 300 AAC Blackout, the 30-30, the .308 and the 30-06. In other words 30 caliber or 0.308"

    OK then, I've retired from the workaday world and am now able to do whatever I (make that whatever she) should want to do. Yesterday, I decided that I wanted to make some 30 caliber bullets.(that's bullets, not boolits---the distinction will become clearer as we go along.) so I chose a container of brass to start to work on. DSC00097_NEW_NEW 1.JPG

    Now 5.7 x 28 has a nasty poly coating on it that requires some extra processing. First the 5.7 x 28 which is exactly the right length to make some 30 caliber(.308") bullets, has to be opened up so you can resize it down from 0.325 " to around 0.302". This last size will be explained, again as we go along.

    The neck of the 5.7 needs to be opened up with a mandrel or perhaps a Lee decapping die from a 30 caliber resizing die. I'm sure most people have 1 or 2 around with no pins from trying to decap some berdan primed brass. However it happened, this mandrel will open the neck of the 5.7x28 up into a size that will allow us to use a pin in the annealed brass to push it up through a draw-down die to 0.302".

    I pushed approximately 1000 cases through the mandrel die to open them up resulting in the first picture in the following posts As I progress through the system, I will post individual pictures explaining each step. Hopefully, at the end we'll have about 1000 plinking bullets of the 30 caliber variety. ( 30 carbine, 300 BO, 30-30, .308 and 30-06) Today, I will spend posting pictures with explanations. Enjoy.

    Bill
    W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
    NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

    #2
    Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

    First picture is the base piece of brass we start with, the 5.7x28mm which is a nasty little piece of work. Really a poor red-headed stepchild who pretty much anyone hesitates to do anything with because it is so hard to work with.
    DSC00099.jpg
    W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
    NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

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      #3
      Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

      Well as I said 5.7x28 is a nasty little piece of brass. You have to open up the neck with a mandrel to approximately 0.325" so you can draw down the brass to .302 for further processing.

      DSC00102.jpg

      Now that we have opened that tiny neck up, there is still that "nasty" poly coating the brass has. Only one thing to do to get rid of it, Annealing is the practice of raising the temperature of the brass to 800oF to 1000o

      F. Just watch this:

      DSC00105.jpgDSC00107.jpgDSC00111.jpg

      Now THAT is HOT! Needless to say, it takes some time for that to cool down and be ready for the next step.........
      W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
      NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

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        #4
        Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

        What is best in life? The open steppe, fleet horse, falcons at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.

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          #5
          Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

          Once the brass has been annealed at 1000oF for about 10 to 15 minutes it's got to cool before dunking in cold water. Now brass is funny, when it's annealed it softens so it is more malleable and can be drawn down from 0.325" to about .302:

          DSC00112.jpg

          But first gotta' get all that nasty ash from the polycoat off there:

          DSC00116.jpg

          About 3 hours in the Thumler's Tumbler with 1 teaspoonful of Dawn, 5 lbs of stainless steel pins and 1/8th teaspoonful of Lemishine(pure vitamin C or ascorbic acid)

          DSC00117.jpg

          Now I've got to get the dies ready to draw down AND to swage some cores to match the weight of the brass to equal approximately 150 grains. Each piece of brass varies several tenths of a grain and the variation in cores will range from 149 to 150.4 grains. Good enough for plinking however.

          More tomorrow and we'll get to see the variations necessary for the difference in 30-30 requirements for the tubular magazine and the hollow and spire points for everything else.

          Night all..........................
          W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
          NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

          Comment


            #6
            Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

            By the way, did you know that Frankford Arsenal ripped off the idea of the food dehydrator and repurposed it as a "Brass Dryer"? :DSC00101 (1).jpg

            Works very nicely however so I bought one. It comes apart and runs from 90oF to 160oF see:

            DSC00102 (1).jpg It has 5 round layers and will hold 1000 cases of 5.7x28mm. Takes about 35 to 40 minutes and makes them toasty and warm. Anyhow, now that we have annealed, tumbled and dried brass, we have to draw down the individual pieces of brass from 0.325" to 0.303" in size. That requires a die I have on my other press and I couldn't get a picture of it today, perhaps another time but here's the results:

            DSC00128.jpgDSC00129.jpg By the way, remember me telling you that the 5.7x28mm was a nasty little piece of brass? Well check out the next post to see what I ran into doing the 1000 pieces that we annealed. Happens quite often because we can't anneal before opening up the neck because to try to open the neck after annealing, just crushes the case.
            W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
            NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

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              #7
              Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

              Here is the result of some brass that even though it was only once fired, it was still too brittle because of work hardening.:

              DSC00110 (1).jpg

              This pile of lead cores, weighing approximately 90 grains each, was processed individually from lead wire, cut into about 100 grain pieces, then swaged in a "Core Swage Die" to about 90 grains;

              DSC00125 (1).jpgDSC00103 (1).jpg

              So we now need to take our resized .303" brass and put a core in it and swage it into the brass so that the brass becomes the nice .308" that the first measured brass now shows above. The pile of lead cores are paired with a piece of brass to measure as close to 150 grains as we can get.:

              DSC00119 (1).jpg

              Last edited by R.Ph. 380; 01-26-2017, 11:18 AM. Reason: spelling
              W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
              NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

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                #8
                Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                Here's what we're left with after the cores are swaged into the brass bringing the diameter all the way up to 0.308":

                DSC00131.jpg These individually are put into a point forming die and squeezed(swaged) with about 2 tons of pressure which leads to them flowing into a "pointy" shape that is known as a spire point. Here:DSC00134.jpg

                For extra credit, who out there can tell me the source of these and what they are?

                DSC00117 (1).jpg

                In the future, I will relate how you can change this spire point to an exposed lead point or even a flat point, remember......for the 30-30?
                Last edited by R.Ph. 380; 01-26-2017, 11:04 AM.
                W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
                NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                  Originally posted by R.Ph. 380 View Post
                  Weird picture above should be upright picture of a Swage Die but I give up. Anyway, here's what we're left with after the cores are swaged into the brass bringing the diameter all the way up to 0.308":


                  For extra credit, who out there can tell me the source of these and what they are?

                  [ATTACH=CONFIG]8205[/ATTACH]

                  In the future, I will relate how you can change this spire point to an exposed lead point or even a flat point, remember......for the 30-30?
                  Lead foil? What do I win? But now my tooth ache is bothering me....

                  BTW in less than 2-hours I make polymer jacketed 30 cal 150 gr hollow points

                  Those sure look nice though Bill. So how do they shoot?
                  Certified Armed Infidel .
                  WARNING: All my ammo contains bacon grease for a one way ticket to hell!
                  45/70 when Bacon is still on the hoof. Here Piggie Piggie and ISIS pigs.


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                    #10
                    Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                    Very cool! Thanks for the write up. I feel like I have been reading a text book!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                      Fantastic thread! Too bad I didn't keep all my 5.62 x 28 brass. I sold my FiveSeveN and my T/C barrel to a guy up north and my brass went to a reloader in Utah.

                      I would have reloaded it, but like you said that nasty poly coat isn't fun to work with.
                      In memory of our Founder, Michael T. June 15, 1946 - February 26, 2017

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                        You've got the coolest toys Bill, I love reading about this stuff.

                        Stoopid phone.
                        "The kindest, most sensitive guy on the entire internet."

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                          #13
                          Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                          Let me know when Bill's Bullets rings the NYSE opening bell. I'm in on the IPO.
                          Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

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                            #14
                            Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                            Next lesson, boys and girls, will be how to make 185 grn Hornady 45acp XTPtm HP from 40 S&W scrap G-lock bulged brass. Stay tuned to this station and be sure to eat your Wheatiestm
                            W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
                            NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: 30 CAL FROM 5.7 X 28

                              Originally posted by PHMadness View Post
                              You've got the coolest toys Bill, I love reading about this stuff.

                              Stoopid phone.
                              I started buying specialty dies from a guy in Hood River, Oregon 4 to 5 years ago, getting ready for my retirement this January. I couldn't afford all them at once but had to get a set about every year. I have .223 from 22lr, 45acp from 40S&W, and 30 cal from copper jackets and from 5.7x28mm, then I have some CH dies for making half jacketed 357Mag from jackets. or 357Mag from 9mm or 380acp. Even though they cost quite a bit, because of our recently deposed POTUS and the ammunition shortages of the last 8 years or so, I have actually amortized that cost and now will cut down on my ammunition expense for me and my family. I have a SIL and Grandson who enjoy shooting. It's nice to be able to tell them "Sure no problem, I've got lots of ammo". When they want to go shoot.

                              GTGeorge, how did you recognize the lead foils from the Dentist. I can't get them anymore, everyone around here has gone to digital and no longer use the little cassettes. I now have to get my lead usually in wire or in the case of .223(0.187" wire for core) I can extrude it from a die I have but can't get for the 30 cal. Anybody got a lathe who wants to bore out a piece of threaded bar stock in 7/8 x 14" thread? I can give you all the dimensions and the size of the hole in the threaded cap. Another source of lead I have found is roofers with their covers for vent pipes on the roof and the sheeting many of them still use. I will even settle for lead pipe if I can find any. I also have an adjustable core mold for the 30 caliber dies that will drop multiple weights of 30 cal cores. That propane burner I have will boost the temp up to 1100 to 1200oF. Lead melts from 680 to 800 depending on the allow of zinc and antimony. I have many ingots of pure that I'll be getting into this summer. Casting is a "whole 'nuther ball game, and requires some special skills and very, very cautious safety considerations.

                              Now this is where the differentiation between Bullets and Boolits comes in. A Bullet is a fully, semi, coated, plated or hollow point copper or brass jacketed piece of lead suitable for sending out the muzzle of a firearm. A Boolit is a naked, cast piece of lead formed by a mold into a properly sized piece of alloyed lead for the same purpose. Both are great fun and useful when used properly. I'm not even going to get into the fight between purists who want to only use lubed and sized boolits and those advocating powder coatings for their boolit workings. When the proper powder is used at the proper curing times and heat, they provide the same benefits that swaging does, at a much reduced price. We need to have some of the PC users and Swagers to comment on the benefits of their method vs. the opposition. Myself, just so I have enough components to make the cartridges for my shootin' irons, I'm a happy camper.

                              Bill
                              W.W.MT.D-----WHAT WOULD MICHAEL T DO?
                              NRA GOLDEN EAGLE

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