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DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

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    DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

    DRAWING UNDER ATTACK . All right here the disclaimer . I am not a expert . I don't write books , have a radio or TV show. Not a expert witness , and don't have a name most people can't pronounce . I don't write for or read combat gun rags. I have drawn and fired once in my life as a civilian . Subject lived and spent a long time in jail.


    Last 30 years or so the 2 handed method of shooting has be come the norm . Started out game playing Then Cooper and others started it for Self Defense It is now THE WAY OF GUNFIGHTING . Really then why do police miss 70 to 80% of their shots . In NYC I say ,Police more dangerous than Bad Guy. They seem to hit a lot of innocent people When they open up .

    Before all this Police carried revolvers and fired mainly 1 handed or 2 hand from FBI low crouch position. lot of BG went down over years.

    Ok 2 hand arms extended sighted shooting facing you target . Is this really the best for you . Its what taught But is it the Best.

    Here is my problem you are standing square to the BG Folks this not boxing your not their trading punches you more than likely trading bullets . Why do you want to face these people square on shooting 2 handed . You wearing a bullet proof vest ? No! Then why expose at you vital organs to being shot . Also you arms and hands even. Yes 2 handed shooting maybe can be more accurate (remember the Police 70% + miss) . I shoot 2 handed at distance . Not at draw and fire 20' or less.

    How did those Gentlemen of old fight a duel at 10 paces . Front on 2 handed hold or turned side ways in so called dueling stance. .They turned sideways Why They didn't want shot . They might been fool enough to fight a duel. But they were going to minimize their chance of being shot. Stand in front of a mirror 2 hand hold position . Now turn sideways in dueling stance arm extended like pistol in hand . See the difference a lot. Big target smaller target . Which one gives you a better chance .

    If you practice you can draw and turn your body in one motion arm extended and fire With some practice you will be able to but 1 or 2 rounds on a paper plate every time quickly out to 20' or so.. Every time as fast as the 2 hand hold at least. As accurate In SD shooting a paper plate size target is about where you are going to hit no matter the stance . Hits count on your target and his misses keeps you alive. Practice drawing and turning your body arm extended and dry fire. At box range shoot the BG target at 20 ' Sideway stance bring pistol up and fire 1 shot or 2 as soon as you see sights. Might be nice to have more than one tool in box .

    Again I don't run a gunfighting school and don't claim to be a expert. I just think sometimes the old way . Still has a place in you shooting . I often wonder . Just how many of these experts ,have ever been in a fight. I know some have, but I still think be a small %. Most just preach what they were taught, have never tried for real on street . Remember in theory a Bumble Bee can't fly Guess no one ever told them that.
    Certified Armed Infidel


    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” John F. Kennedy.


    John Bernard Books: I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. Words to live by.

    The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range.-Jeff Cooper

    11,997 posts on the original Bersa Talk Still the King on total posts.

    "Just say "Lay A Way"

    "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

    SECURE our borders ,DEPORT all illegals STOP IMPORTATION OF HOMELESS MUSLIMS



    TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA !

    #2
    Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

    I was taught and try to practice varied scenarios. Always try to get a barrier between your body and the target. If none available, keep moving while shooting (I try to use both one hand and two shooting in this process). With barricades available, practice right, left, and over barricade depending on what's available. Also practice strong side and weak side one handed shooting in case one side gets injured. You would be surprised at how many small semi auto handguns will jam when one shoots weak side. You don't grip the same and recoil is less controlled. Flat footed FBI crouch is a last resort desperation shot for longer distances (beyond 10 yards).
    Now, I understand that most ranges will not allow this type of training unless in a "supervised" class. Finding some place friendly to realistic practice is important.
    Last edited by north tex; 12-10-2015, 11:27 AM.
    Sorry looks back.
    Worry looks around.
    Faith looks up.

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      #3
      Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

      For targets about 3-5 yards out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58eMKHmkfcE

      For targets 5-7 yards out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6oIye0p574 (Except, I was taught to plant your elbow on your belly)

      For targets 10 yards out, the guy didn't seem to do a video, but you hold the pistol straight out in front of you, arm straight.

      In none of those positions do you ever see the sights. You focus on the target. I had a great training session on this, and it's really pretty easy once you've learned the details.
      Certified Armed Infidel
      كافر

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        #4
        Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

        Yes MT it is amazing how the shooting community has went 2-handed facing the target. I get much attention and rhetoric when I choose 1 handed when I am allowed 2 in most stages in IDPA. Yep these shooting games are the exact causes of trainers teaching 2 handed but at least in IDPA they set up scenarios that utilize weak hand strong hand and moving as well as the use of cover. Not perfect but it does allow practice simulating real shooting conditions if you choose to shot them with that mentality instead of trying to be the fastest. If you can't shoot moving etc. with what is available I would recommend finding an IDPA match near you to try.
        Certified Armed Infidel .
        WARNING: All my ammo contains bacon grease for a one way ticket to hell!
        45/70 when Bacon is still on the hoof. Here Piggie Piggie and ISIS pigs.


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          #5
          Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

          It worked for years for these guys . . .

          God made the Garand!

          USN Gunner's Mate 1976-80

          Moderator - nevadashooters.com

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            #6
            Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

            I am talking about only the draw and firing 1st one or 2 shots . Of course moving and sighted aim and protection is great. This is first couple seconds . Put those on target and might not need the rest. Guy in Video , Facing target and point shooting .
            Iam not talking that . Draw , body turned to side Strong arm extended looking over top of pistol focus on front sight and fire.

            Standing in from of a mirror in a tee shirt and playing John Wayne . No Put a cover shirt or jacket practice sweeping it back and drawing .
            Want to do what he's doing get one of those air soft and shoot at a target . I used to have a .177 caliber pellet pistol I would draw and shoot a paper plate in basement at 20' or so. When I was younger .

            Tophog picture is right Idea Only you move very fast into this position with out the GI joe stuff of course. This is not to be a fixed fighting position only draw and fire then be moving and shooting if target is still up .
            Some of you making this harder than is. This is your open self defense move. . At this point your backing up if going to hip and point shooting. If I made this to difficult Put tee shirt on and find a mirror
            Last edited by Michael T; 12-10-2015, 02:36 PM.
            Certified Armed Infidel


            “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” John F. Kennedy.


            John Bernard Books: I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. Words to live by.

            The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range.-Jeff Cooper

            11,997 posts on the original Bersa Talk Still the King on total posts.

            "Just say "Lay A Way"

            "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

            SECURE our borders ,DEPORT all illegals STOP IMPORTATION OF HOMELESS MUSLIMS



            TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA !

            Comment


              #7
              Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

              In 1960 when I was in Korea, I qualified on the M1911. I keep thinking we used a two hand grip, maybe not? Just not sure. The only time I fired one was when I qualified. After that, I didn't carry one more than 2 or 3 times at most. And it was holstered, unloaded, and the ammo in the BN main gate shack........
              TO BE UNARMED IS TO BE A VICTIM

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                #8
                Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                When things go bad you don't have time to put both hands on your gun before shooting. When I practice a quick draw at close range with my 1911 I start shooting when the gun gets to the groin area and usually the next shot is in the chest area. Three very quick shots and onto the next target. I,m getting pretty good with my thunder plus but it takes a bit longer to get it out of my leather motorcycle jacket.
                Billy
                sigpic

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                  #9
                  Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                  But can you ride and shoot L/handed . I can since I am blessed with correct hand use. Of course need to toss those silly windshields and get in the wind to shoot when riding .



                  Military never taught 2 handed 1911 shooting . Doing my time from 66 thru most of 70's 1 hand just like picture . I remember once we had to shoot shot gun since that also a MP weapon . I was first up 12 gauge pump 00 buck at about 20'. 5 card board pop up type targets . Idiot range person mounded with a staple. On 2x2 right up center 5 shots 5 targets laying on ground I blew every 2x2 in half with a COM hit . End of range time Lets go to PX and snack bar. . We never Fired a shot gun again While I was their.
                  Last edited by Michael T; 12-10-2015, 09:06 PM.
                  Certified Armed Infidel


                  “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” John F. Kennedy.


                  John Bernard Books: I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. Words to live by.

                  The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range.-Jeff Cooper

                  11,997 posts on the original Bersa Talk Still the King on total posts.

                  "Just say "Lay A Way"

                  "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

                  SECURE our borders ,DEPORT all illegals STOP IMPORTATION OF HOMELESS MUSLIMS



                  TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA !

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                    Sometime in the early 70s the Air force started teaching the 2 hand hold with their 38s. It was great for qualification within their long time parameters and 25 yard targets but not very realistic. I was able to get the expert ribbon with a 2 inch S&W that way.
                    Sorry looks back.
                    Worry looks around.
                    Faith looks up.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                      I don't believe I'll be doing much chasing folks on my motorcycle trying to gun them down. I don't know a good enough lawyer that could get me out of the trouble I might be in.
                      Billy
                      sigpic

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                        #12
                        Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                        The military 38 spl ball round . Was lucky to punch a hole in paper at 25 yards . That was a sorry load. Female MP's carried the 38's Like the Air force people. They couldn't handle a 1911 to much recoil. .
                        Certified Armed Infidel


                        “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.” John F. Kennedy.


                        John Bernard Books: I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them. Words to live by.

                        The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range.-Jeff Cooper

                        11,997 posts on the original Bersa Talk Still the King on total posts.

                        "Just say "Lay A Way"

                        "WWJBD" What Would James Bond Do?

                        SECURE our borders ,DEPORT all illegals STOP IMPORTATION OF HOMELESS MUSLIMS



                        TIME TO TAKE BACK AMERICA !

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                          Originally posted by Michael T View Post
                          The military 38 spl ball round . Was lucky to punch a hole in paper at 25 yards . That was a sorry load. Female MP's carried the 38's Like the Air force people. They couldn't handle a 1911 to much recoil. .
                          You had females doing MP work! !!!...Yeah the 130 gn ball was a bit anemic but I still didn't want one to hit me... Might of bruised my ego.
                          Sorry looks back.
                          Worry looks around.
                          Faith looks up.

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                            #14
                            Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                            Not to put you guys to shame, but here's the firearms training I got in the Fighting Man's Navy of '66. They handed you a single-shot .22 rifle and five rounds, then pointed to a target 25 yards away. From the prone position, you fired until your ammo was gone. Who cared about scores? If you were going to a combat assignment, they shipped you to California to train with the Marines. The closest I got to a .45 was when I served main gate duty at Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. The chief petty officer had one in his desk.
                            Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

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                              #15
                              Re: DRAWING UNDER ATTACK !!!!!!!

                              Peace time Army basic training consisted of qualifying with the M1 Garand, spending more time on tear down & reassembly, than on actual range time.
                              Think Green.......Recycle Congress

                              Certified Armed Infidel

                              Right Wing Extremist

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