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    Active Shooter Defenses

    You might spend a lot of time punching holes at the range and feel pretty confident that you'll always win a life/death struggle against defenseless paper, but what would you do if those targets suddenly put on flesh and pointed a big ol' gun at you with a lot of screaming people around? Here's some pointers given by a 2A instructor who spent some time taking an active shooter defensive course and therefore knows it all. It's your option to heed or customize his advice, but it's certainly better than having no tactic or training at all. His goal is the same as yours: A finely tuned spidey sense for scary situations so that you'll be among the last standing to tell the tale.

    https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2017/0...tion-is-wrong/
    Last edited by gun sane; 07-15-2017, 05:54 PM.
    Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

    #2
    Re: Active Shooter Defenses

    Can't agree with much of his assertions.
    He almost lost me altogether at many people should not be armed.
    Anyone who has the sense to walk about should realize they alone are responsible for their own defense.

    I do agree if one is not armed or child etc going out a nearby door instead of waiting to be killed probably is best. Unless of course some thugs are watching the exits to kill the herd pouring out of them. But these days that's a crapshoot one takes a chance on.


    Personally I want to be moving away from where most others are heading.
    A shooter of any kind active or terrorist isn't going to stop spraying a crowd to concentrate on one or two single folks.

    If the stupid carry restrictions in this nation were lifted, everywhere, active shooters would be confronted, when they start, by armed citizens and off themselves or be killed by citizens instead of running up body counts while the sheep wait on the "pros".

    And this problem would be a very rare occurrence.

    But, obeying the law of the land, the cotus 2A in this instance is just to simple for gov and it's enforcers.
    You dont have to believe a train is coming to be run over by it.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Active Shooter Defenses

      After I retired from the Navy I worked on an AF base for 25 years. GUNS NOT ALLOWED!

      I would be called in at all hours to assist the base Security Police as a police photographer. I got to photograph the crime scene or disaster scene. I was/am vetted by the state of TX to carry a gun in public but the AF deemed me almost a child when it came to weapons. I asked, I pushed, Iwas told tough. But I stuck it out for the paycheck and the pension. ((Besides I was told it'd never happen here - scary.))

      I am very glad to be retired. I loved the job but considering the crap that has gone on in this world I feel I am better off taking responsibility for my self vice my employer "looking out for me".

      Now I spend as little time on base as is practical. I use the base pharmacy (they are terrific) and the commissary (pretty good). But these trips are planned to minimize time on base. I don't like soft targets.

      Run and hide; duck and cover - only the weapon is different.
      Last edited by rangefinder; 07-15-2017, 08:51 PM. Reason: spelling

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Active Shooter Defenses

        Originally posted by Ghost1958 View Post
        Can't agree with much of his assertions.
        He almost lost me altogether at many people should not be armed.
        That argument made me wince, too. Most citizens should be at least familiar enough with firearms to know how to use them when the chips are down and the right opportunity presents itself. Yet many have moral principles against guns and therefore and don't have "the right stuff"--especially the gumption--to fire upon another human being. Perhaps it's this type of audience that the writer has in mind.

        However, carrying a gun doesn't automatically give you the skill set of a Die Hard badass for facing multiple opponents. That requires serious training which most armed citizens can't afford or acquire. God gave us a brain long before the government gave us a card. It's wise to assess the circumstances before acting--but take your time in a hurry.
        Last edited by gun sane; 07-15-2017, 09:15 PM.
        Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Active Shooter Defenses

          In or on Federal facilities we are taught (every year I might add) to Run, Hide, Fight. Run if you can, Hide if you can't run, Fight as a very last resort. And that, believe it not, applies to our military personnel as well since their guns are taken away from them too. Seems like all the unarmed combat training I learned at the Academy was for nothing.
          Certified Armed Infidel

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Active Shooter Defenses

            Originally posted by gun sane View Post
            That argument made me wince, too. Most citizens should be at least familiar enough with firearms to know how to use them when the chips are down and the right opportunity presents itself. Yet many have moral principles against guns and therefore and don't have "the right stuff"--especially the gumption--to fire upon another human being. Perhaps it's this type of audience that the writer has in mind.

            However, carrying a gun doesn't automatically give you the skill set of a Die Hard badass for facing multiple opponents. That requires serious training which most armed citizens can't afford or acquire. God gave us a brain long before the government gave us a card. It's wise to assess the circumstances before acting--but take your time in a hurry.
            While I agree with most everything you stated I'm just personally a bit different camp on training and yes I have been trained on the taxpayers dime.

            No amount of training will prepare a person for the real thing. Unless of course the training includedes the possibility of actually being shot to death.
            Not police swat etc training or any other civilian paid course sold by today's so called experts.

            Folks have defended self and others for couple hundred yrs with firearms before the Travisty of permits and gun laws were ever dreamed of. And did it pretty well.
            If an armed citizen can hit a pie plate at 20 yards with a handgun he or she is well ahead of 90 percent of the leos they are waiting on. And no more scared than most of the so called pros either.
            I'm not bashing LE, But they are a clean up crew most of the time with the damage long done before they will gather enough numbers and mraps to do anything.
            jmo but other than being hobbled by carry restrictions, armed civilians in these kill zones, can and could and on occasion have, respond faster, with less killing and more effectively than le, with no need of hundreds of hours of high speed low drag operator training.
            There's a huge difference in shooting sheep in a pen and shooting the same sheep when half instantly shoot back.
            You dont have to believe a train is coming to be run over by it.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Active Shooter Defenses

              Originally posted by Ghost1958 View Post
              There's a huge difference in shooting sheep in a pen and shooting the same sheep when half instantly shoot back.
              Excellent point, Ghost! The bigger problem is the politicians who worry about anti-gun pine knots who slam heroes after any shooting.
              Never give the devil a ride. He will always want to drive.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                Originally posted by gun sane View Post
                Excellent point, Ghost! The bigger problem is the politicians who worry about anti-gun pine knots who slam heroes after any shooting.
                Bingo.^^^^
                You dont have to believe a train is coming to be run over by it.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                  Originally posted by Hammer1270
                  Well,,, If my steel or paper targets suddenly put on flesh and started shooting back at me,,, I would poop my pants and then run for my life like Speedy Gonzales ..
                  I don't believe that he really said much in this article, mostly common sense IMO. situations have many different variations and will call for strategy to be implemented on a case by case basis IMO. I believe that one, first should be armed, then train often so that there will be no thought but instant reaction to whatever the situation presents.
                  Training with left hand, right hand, the ground, advancing, retreating, side to side, from cover, from the hip, point and shoot, small targets and large targets alike will all call for a certain approach to be determined under stress and without thought. Kinda funny, but air-soft courses also provide a good platform for training.

                  In a Sandy Hook type situation, which I believe never happened and is nothing more than a fantastic hoax to instill fear in order to have the sheep believe that guns are the problem, also to provide a horrible tragedy so that it can be taken advantage of for purpose, When we can get the sheep to fear that their kids will be slaughtered just because the Evil Gun exists in our society. Those same sheep will fall in line and call for "gun control" as they watch those hired actors cry on the Boob Tube about how guns are slaughtering our children. Look at 9/11,, "THE EVIL DOERS THAT DO EVIL LIKE EVIL DOERS DO ARE COMING! They scared the public into giving up many rights,, enter, The Patriot act... Today they press Mental Illness with many shooter incidents and suddenly, your doctor can now ask you if you own a firearm,, Why? Will me Doctor be able to certify me stressed and unqualified to carry a firearm? Nuff Said...

                  If in a Sandy Hook scenario, I would think not to follow the crowd, take cover or head in the other direction, yes, make yourself a lone moving target as it will be harder to hit and the shooter may be more inclined to shoot into the crowd in an attempt to kill as many as possible, shooting at a lone moving target will spend more ammo and doesn't guarantee a hit, I believe that in the mind of the shooter, the odds will be better if he shoots into the crowd,, odds are that the shooter will not be trained also, giving the trained GG the upper hand,, Since I am in NY,, I don't train daily,, I will go a few weeks without training and then cram a full week or more of concentrated and constant training in different ways,, one thing that we also do is try and stress or distract each other while shooting in order to try and get ourselves to focus on nothing but the target without distraction of noise and stress.. It's never the real live thing but it is the best that we have for the moment.. I have also visited an interactive range here in NY,, it is very cool,, I stand in an arena that is like a 3D movie screen, they set up all kinds of situations and I shoot live rounds into the screen and kill terrorists and BGs as the terrorists and BGs shoot back from cover or other,, you can be shot and taken out of the game in this simulator so you must remain sharp, quick and kill your targets fast, if you happen to miss a few targets, you will wind up fighting several shooters,, the more that you miss, the more shooters you will have fighting you,,, it's a pretty awesome tool for training but it was very expensive with restrictions on when you can use the simulator so I did not join. With all said, I do pray that none of us ever have to face an active shooter situation but if we do, I hope that awareness and preparedness brings us to a happy ending. Awareness and preparedness does increase our odds of success IMO. Defining success in an active situation = No Blood Shed.
                  Well said bro.
                  You dont have to believe a train is coming to be run over by it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                    Originally posted by Hammer1270
                    Well,,, If my steel or paper targets suddenly put on flesh and started shooting back at me,,, I would poop my pants and then run for my life like Speedy Gonzales ..
                    I don't believe that he really said much in this article, mostly common sense IMO. situations have many different variations and will call for strategy to be implemented on a case by case basis IMO. I believe that one, first should be armed, then train often so that there will be no thought but instant reaction to whatever the situation presents.
                    Training with left hand, right hand, the ground, advancing, retreating, side to side, from cover, from the hip, point and shoot, small targets and large targets alike will all call for a certain approach to be determined under stress and without thought. Kinda funny, but air-soft courses also provide a good platform for training.

                    In a Sandy Hook type situation, which I believe never happened and is nothing more than a fantastic hoax to instill fear in order to have the sheep believe that guns are the problem, also to provide a horrible tragedy so that it can be taken advantage of for purpose, When we can get the sheep to fear that their kids will be slaughtered just because the Evil Gun exists in our society. Those same sheep will fall in line and call for "gun control" as they watch those hired actors cry on the Boob Tube about how guns are slaughtering our children. Look at 9/11,, "THE EVIL DOERS THAT DO EVIL LIKE EVIL DOERS DO ARE COMING! They scared the public into giving up many rights,, enter, The Patriot act... Today they press Mental Illness with many shooter incidents and suddenly, your doctor can now ask you if you own a firearm,, Why? Will me Doctor be able to certify me stressed and unqualified to carry a firearm? Nuff Said...

                    If in a Sandy Hook scenario, I would think not to follow the crowd, take cover or head in the other direction, yes, make yourself a lone moving target as it will be harder to hit and the shooter may be more inclined to shoot into the crowd in an attempt to kill as many as possible, shooting at a lone moving target will spend more ammo and doesn't guarantee a hit, I believe that in the mind of the shooter, the odds will be better if he shoots into the crowd,, odds are that the shooter will not be trained also, giving the trained GG the upper hand,, Since I am in NY,, I don't train daily,, I will go a few weeks without training and then cram a full week or more of concentrated and constant training in different ways,, one thing that we also do is try and stress or distract each other while shooting in order to try and get ourselves to focus on nothing but the target without distraction of noise and stress.. It's never the real live thing but it is the best that we have for the moment.. I have also visited an interactive range here in NY,, it is very cool,, I stand in an arena that is like a 3D movie screen, they set up all kinds of situations and I shoot live rounds into the screen and kill terrorists and BGs as the terrorists and BGs shoot back from cover or other,, you can be shot and taken out of the game in this simulator so you must remain sharp, quick and kill your targets fast, if you happen to miss a few targets, you will wind up fighting several shooters,, the more that you miss, the more shooters you will have fighting you,,, it's a pretty awesome tool for training but it was very expensive with restrictions on when you can use the simulator so I did not join. With all said, I do pray that none of us ever have to face an active shooter situation but if we do, I hope that awareness and preparedness brings us to a happy ending. Awareness and preparedness does increase our odds of success IMO. Defining success in an active situation = No Blood Shed.
                    That is really sad. Defining real success in an active shooter situation is ONE DEAD SHOOTER. We didn't win World War II running like hell in the other direction. But that's how we lost Vietnam. Sad.
                    Certified Armed Infidel

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                      Originally posted by groberts View Post
                      That is really sad. Defining real success in an active shooter situation is ONE DEAD SHOOTER. We didn't win World War II running like hell in the other direction. But that's how we lost Vietnam. Sad.
                      So in an active shooter situation you would do it differently?
                      I can't definitively say what I would do in a situation like Sandy Hook, or Orlando, or Trolley Square, etc. I would hope to be a net asset but keeping my own ass and those of my family unventilated would be a high priority. The highest actually.

                      Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
                      "The kindest, most sensitive guy on the entire internet."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                        The hardest part of an active shooter situation. You move towards the sound of gun fire. You see 2 or 3 subjects with guns shooting. You have your gun. Which shooter is a bad guy? Which one is a good guy? Are they all bad guys? Will the good guys recognize you as a good guy or think you're an accomplice? Will the police know you're a good guy?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                          Originally posted by PHMadness View Post
                          So in an active shooter situation you would do it differently?
                          I can't definitively say what I would do in a situation like Sandy Hook, or Orlando, or Trolley Square, etc. I would hope to be a net asset but keeping my own ass and those of my family unventilated would be a high priority. The highest actually.

                          Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
                          Every active fire situation is completely different, all ones training, and I hate to say this goes south in a hurry. As John states here who is good and who is bad. It becomes a crap shoot.

                          Now PHM you brought up the Orlando Pulse Nightclub Muslim terrorist attack. This is a twist on that shooting. I saved at least one if not three lives that night. No not at the club, just the opposite. My neighbor, I won't say what she does, but her business clientele is made up of many who visited the Pulse Club. She is Latino, and the manager asked her to come to the club as a guest that night. If you read up on the shooting, it was Latino night. She was to take two others that I know. She decided not to go because the next morning she was throwing a big birthday party for someone on this forum. You guessed it, it was my (RC's ) party. My birthday is June 5, but the party was set Sunday morning June 12. She and the three others may have all lost their lives during the early hours around 2 am if it wasn't for my party. She lost alot of friends and doesn't like to talk about it. On June 12th, this year she said to me again, I may not be here today if it wasn't for your birthday party last year.
                          This has nothing to do with an an active shooting situation. I just thought I would share this with the forum.
                          In memory of our Founder, Michael T. June 15, 1946 - February 26, 2017

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                            Originally posted by Hammer1270
                            I think that we are on the same page, maybe just said differently?
                            I also believe that a War scenario is different than an active shooter scenario, My thoughts would be that, in War, there is a coordinated or organized plan put forth and implemented for execution on the field of choice for best effectiveness. Most of the time, one does know who the enemy is and who the GG is. there are also many different moving parts that come together to form a whole, Back up or Ground Support, Air Support, Communication, First Aid, and more,, this is much different than an active shooter situation IMO.

                            In an active shooter scenario, I would think there is mass panic and no organization, Lots of confusion and everyone for himself type activity, people will trample others rather than help others as has been proven to happen in much less dangerous situations, similar to a lion attack and herd of wildebeest hightailing it outta there aimlessly.
                            Geesh,, just shopping on Black Friday at yer local Wall Mart can get one trampled and killed over a stinkin TV or toaster on sale these days.

                            There is much to consider in a situation such as this, I have never been in an active shooter situation but given the events of these times, I am forced to think of how to deal in this type of scenario, I try and train properly and be prepared, I do agree with John and RC, the Adrenalin boost will make it very hard to react as one would in training and one will not immediately know who the GG is,,, and no one will know if I am the GG or BG either,, it is a very tough scenario to stamp out a solid plan to remedy or combat.

                            Don't get me wrong, if innocents were being killed and I was presented with the opportunity that allows me to safely stop it, (by safely, I mean taking a safe shot) I will stop the threat but again, it will all be determined on a case by case as each case is different. I do prefer not to shed blood if possible, But if left no choice then one must shed blood and live with taking life... I do not want to bring Faith or God into this conversation but if I can stop a threat without bloodshed I will welcome the opportunity, if left with no choice, I would shed blood.
                            "if I can stop a threat without bloodshed I will welcome the opportunity, if left with no choice, I would shed blood."

                            OK. Who are you and what did you do with my brother Hammer?
                            You dont have to believe a train is coming to be run over by it.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Active Shooter Defenses

                              Originally posted by Hammer1270
                              This is not Hammer, Bro,,, This is Vladimir Bronutsky,, I have hacked Hammer's account because he is a Deplorable Simpleton...
                              You're a little late for the hack. We already had our vote for moderator of the year

                              Comment

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